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Flying Phantom F 18 Catamaran

Discussion in ' Multihulls ' started by Doug Lord , Jul 13, 2012 .

Corley epoxy coated

There are a few photos up on catsailingnews FB page of the Phantom F18 and Hydros C Class foils from the Salon Nautique International show in Paris. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.554200054665812.1073741834.536828469736304&type=1  

Doug Lord Flight Ready

Flying Phantom Imagine: the first production catamaran full flying foiler in the history of mankind! So very cool.......  

Baltic Bandit Previous Member

And what is it that makes it a "production catamaran"? Cuz I've just talked been to their booth at the Paris Boat Show - and while the boat is cool and has some nice concepts in it, I didn't see a lot of folks lining up to buy it And until they actually make a production run of it, its still basically a custom production boat.  

Flying Phantom Here's a video (in French) from the Paris show. The price appears to be about $43,700-a "normal" F-18 is in the range of 24-28 grand, but this boat is the fastest cat under 20'(maybe under 24') and doesn't sit in the water-it flys.(about 36 grand US minus tax) And it is a great first-the FIRST full flying hydrofoil equipped sailing catamaran to be put into production, the FIRST production hydrofoil equipped sailing cat to use a variation on the TNZ foil system with a single main foil-the same foil system used by Groupama in the Little America's Cup. The First "trickle down" from the foil development done for the 34th America's Cup to be offered to the masses. You can buy it now! I ordered mine today but the damn card was declined---oh well. UPDATE-what a cool foil angle of incidence(rake) control! (see the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxxUs66ZbY&feature=share&list=UUL_En-pm44WY_G8fXpA-JHw  

Well Doug, I've been to their booth at the show. Its a clever boat, but I don't really think its a "production" boat. Too many small fiddly bits to really allow it to be built affordably in "production. For example the detail they have on the AoA of the foil is not something that will be easily built. And while $44k is very pricey I don't think its going to be high enough to actually get the boat into production. He hopes for it to be a one design like the F18 but right now they only have one set of molds. so they simply cannot grow the class all that fast. Its a cool boat, but "production"? Not even close  

Flying Phantom According to Macca(GC32) the pre-orders on the Flying Phantom are significantly ahead of where orders were for the Nacra 20 at this point. He says 13 of the boats were sold at the Paris show....  

"At this point".... IE 3 mos after the first sail of the prototype... OKEY DOKEY.  

Flying Phantom Excerpt from the front page story on SA by Ryan Breymaier on the Phantom: ( http://www.sailinganarchy.com ) Unlike the Oracle, ETNZ, or Team Hydros boats there is no cant adjustment for the boat (inboard/outboard foil movement); the Phantom only allows fore/aft rake adjustment with an endlesss string/worm gear moving the upper foil and thereby changing AoA on the main foil. This sets the median speed of the boat and to some extent, the ride height, with the boat self-levelling as more of the foil comes out of the water. In a great innovation and something we saw on the gorgeous Groupama C boat, the weather board is lifted not by a block and tackle, but by the weight of the crew as he or she wires up on the new tack. Anyone who’s pulled up loaded boards knows this is a huge labor saver, and these boards are around 12 kg of pure carbon! The boat can be beach launched on a non-surf beach( not a Flying Phantom qualification-just mine ) using basically the same kind of dolly other cats use. At this point the top speed of the boat is just 3 knots short of the top speed recorded by a Moth(after 14 years development!)-and will surely increase over time though not as much as the Moth has because this boat is a strict one design. Ease of launching is a huge plus compared with having to wade the boat out on its side like a Moth. The boat has automatic altitude control* within a given speed range as well as the ability to adjust the angle of incidence of the single main foil. Since the boat is a cat you can simply ease the sheets to take a break and catch your breath! Two people(or three) can enjoy the boat together as they learn what makes it tick. Moth skippers frequently take a friend out with them-if it can be done with such a difficult boat to sail-it can certainly be done with a foiling cat. It's the coolest new under 20' multi to hit the water in a long time! ---- * from Ryan's front page piece: Unlike the Oracle, ETNZ, or Team Hydros boats there is no cant adjustment for the boat (inboard/outboard foil movement); the Phantom only allows fore/aft rake adjustment with an endlesss string/worm gear moving the upper foil and thereby changing AoA on the main foil. This sets the median speed of the boat and to some extent, the ride height, with the boat self-levelling as more of the foil comes out of the water.  

Attached Files:

Moth worlds 2013 kruesi for a ride.jpg.

13 boats a the huge Paris boatshow. a show where the French announced a foiling catamaran AC challenge. Where there were half-a-dozen rotomolded catas for sale in the othe booths. Sorry that's just not that impressive. Beach launched on a non-surf beach - which means no real beach that has any sort of wind. The diff with other cats is that you can bring them in close enough to shore that you can pull the boat up onto the dolly and if a small wave bottoms the hull out its not a crisis... Nor does the boat have "automatic altitude control" - it runs a very conservative dihedral (closed J) and its altitude control is largely limited to AoA adjustment And the idea of "enjoying the boat together as they learn what makes it tick" just shows an ignorance of how high performance boats work  

I wrote to Alex Udin, developer of the Flying Phantom and asked him about: 1) sailing with three people for fun-he said it could be done easily.. 2) using a dolly for beach launching-he said no problem-they use a standard Tornado "trolley".  

Yes Doug you can sail any catamaran with 3 people. but that means the board has to generate roughly 20% more lift And sure you use a standard tornado trolley. That's not the problem. Did you read what was written? that you can ONLY launch from a non-surf beach. IOW a beach that only has very small waves on it. IOW a beach that does not have much wind on it UNLESS it is a special beach like the one where SailRocket sailed. I suspect you've never tried to launch a high performance cat in even moderate waves, or you would not be saying this sort of stuff.  

Flying Phantom I wrote to Alex again about launching the Flying Phantom off a beach into surf like other beach cats. He said no problem particularly with the cassette rudders that allow steering when other rudder types don't work too well.  

gypsy28 Senior Member

This has gotta be the coolest beach cat ever! If I had the cash I'd have one in a heart beat. Now just gotta figure out how to add foils to my Nacra 5.8.......Ideas anyone  

Except its not a beach cat. And the instructions from the builder explicitly say not to launch from a surf beech. Seriously Doug, you are never going to buy one of these. Let Alex build his fleet  

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Flying Phantom Baltic Bandit said: ↑ Except its not a beach cat. And the instructions from the builder explicitly say not to launch from a surf beech. Seriously Doug, you are never going to buy one of these. Let Alex build his fleet Click to expand...

Flying Trimaran Project-Marc Thiercelin

A flying cat with stabiliser foils

Proa with canting (flying) keel why not

Flying a class cat from dna, raphael censier-the flying legal a class cat.

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The Flying Phantom

• By Bruce Gain
• Updated: March 12, 2014

Most of us will never have the thrill of flying at 30 knots along the water in the San Francisco Bay on an AC72 in our lifetime, but the Flying Phantom’s developers say the sensation of foiling on their 18-foot catamaran offers a taste of what sailing an America’s Cup boat is like.

While this writer has not yet tested the boat, I have seen it blasting along at more than 20 knots past the rocky coastline of Saint Lunaire, France, and the published specs are indeed impressive. You can supposedly start foiling with the gennaker in seven knots of wind and reach the 30-knot mark in a downwind breeze of 15-20 knots. Foiling upwind is not a problem, either, in a true windspeed of 10 or more knots. The fast-yet-stable design will allow a weekend sailor a steady foiling experience at a maximum speed of 35 knots, the designers says. The price tag: 29,000 euros ($40,000).

“We want to democratize foiling,” Alexandre Udin, CEO of Phantom International, says.

The Flying Phantom’s launch came just a few weeks after the end of the very dramatic America’s Cup last year, which was a fantastic advertisement for foiling, Udin says.

“The last America’s Cup was the greatest thing that could have happened to the world of sailing, thanks to the revolutionary vision of Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts,” Udin says. “I strongly believe that foiling cats are the future of our sport and will attract the younger generation to sailing.”

The genesis of what Udin calls the “Phantom Project” began about three years ago. Martin Fischer, one of the industry’s most respected foiling specialists, was responsible for the boat’s overall design, while leaving the sail design to Udin. The idea was to create a one-design boat geared for speed and foiling that would be forgiving enough so a small error by an amateur sailor would not cause the boat to do somersaults over the water.

An F18 racing catamaran developed in parallel served as a test boat for the Phantom Project. The speed tweaks proved worthy enough for Olivier Backes and Matthieu Vandame to win the F18 World Championship title in 2012.

Fisher and the design team also worked with Franck Cammas and Groupama to develop the foil technology on Groupama C. Under a technology-sharing agreement, Fischer was able to use technologies gained from Groupama C ‘s development on the Phantom project. Cammas, in turn, applied technology from the Phantom F18 to Groupama’s design.

A main issue was figuring out how to apply Groupama C ‘s design tweaks on the Phantom in a way that would not make the boat too fast and radical for amateur sailors to handle, a key challenge for such a small boat. A critical variable was finding the sweet spot angle for the foils and rudders, built around a carbon mast, boom, and hull. Ultimately, the Phantom’s final design was a compromise between lowering drag and adding stability.

The design team tried out eight foils and four generations of rudders before they were satisfied. “In the end, we achieved high performance and stability, in a way that weekend sailors can appreciate,” Udin says.

Udin says Phantom International has sold over 30 boats, with eight boats scheduled for delivery in the U.S. So far, the company has invested 500,000 euros and expects to see sales of 4.5 million euros in the near future.

The very deep and dark reds and blacks of the display model accent the “L’” shape of the foils and the “T” design of the rudders on the catamaran, giving it that stealthy “phantom” look. But for owners who want something else, over a thousand different color schemes are available.

Maybe understated colors and graphics might better serve those who want to discretely enter and then win an amateur cat race–before anyone has time to wonder how an amateur sailor was suddenly able to foil along at speeds of more than 30 knots.

Phantom Foiling Catamaran

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